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When going zero carb, MGO can more than double. Methylglyoxal is a glycating agent many many times more glycating that glucose. This is why it's mostly speculation which diet will provide the least glycation. On top of this, we can't really outright measure glycation. There are epistemological difficulties in measuring glycation. We can't actually do it outright. Even if we did, how will we know it's from the diet? Same difficulty as in epidemiology.
Enjoy the raw milk
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When going zero carb, MGO can more than double. Methylglyoxal is a glycating agent many many times more glycating that glucose. This is why it's mostly speculation which diet will provide the least glycation. On top of this, we can't really outright measure glycation. There are epistemological difficulties in measuring glycation. We can't actually do it outright. Even if we did, how will we know it's from the diet? Same difficulty as in epidemiology.
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When going zero carb, MGO can more than double. Methylglyoxal is a glycating agent many many times more glycating that glucose. This is why it's mostly speculation which diet will provide the least glycation. On top of this, we can't really outright measure glycation. There are epistemological difficulties in measuring glycation. We can't actually do it outright. Even if we did, how will we know it's from the diet? Same difficulty as in epidemiology.
@Swansven Ive also been doing research and I definitely believe ever more than when I made this thread that a raw lion diet does appear to have incredible benefits for longevity and for cancer treatment. The biggest argument stems from blood sugar spikes which in my opinion are inherently harmful as they are the biggest driver of glycation by a huge margin. I believe younger people below 30-40 can get away with eating carbohydrates especially if they do sports or live literally dead on the equator and will be much much healthier and more thriving than low carb but once you get older you cant get away so much with the glycation and I believe you should slowly transition to the final goalpost which is a raw meat, poultry, and fish diet which is our most natural diet as we do not consume eggs or dairy after tanner stage 1 in nature. Also, the issue with cortisol which people bring up is only a thing in the first few days to two weeks on the diet and then it goes away forever and can even be lower than before, and this has been studied causally. However, we will never know the truth without a 20M dollar funded double blind rct buzzword buzzword study and its genuinely a shame how shitty nutritional sciences are that we cant extrapolate anything for true health.
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When going zero carb, MGO can more than double. Methylglyoxal is a glycating agent many many times more glycating that glucose. This is why it's mostly speculation which diet will provide the least glycation. On top of this, we can't really outright measure glycation. There are epistemological difficulties in measuring glycation. We can't actually do it outright. Even if we did, how will we know it's from the diet? Same difficulty as in epidemiology.
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The fruit you eat is very important to consider for your health, much more so than you think.
This guide will encompass:
- How much to eat
- Which ones to eat (very important)
- How and when to eat themHOW MUCH TO EAT
This is heavily debated. There are three general camps:- People like FaceIQ who think you should be getting over 300g of carbs from fruit every single day and drink fruit juice and whatnot
- Primal Dieters (Aaj) who believe fruit shouldnt be a centerpiece of the diet but can absolutely be a part of it
- People like Rawtard who think you should eat zero carb and absolutely no fruits.
When it comes down to it, fruit is delicious, and we all love it. That enough should tell you that, and we should listen to our senses. However, overeating fruit is definitely possible and definitely a problem.
We dont want to be in Ketosis or Glycolysis, we want to be in a mix. Half and half. When you eat a ton of fruit, you dont get the neurological benefits of ketones along with the other benefits of ketosis, and when eating zero carbs you dont get the benefits of glycogen and being in glycolysis.
For the general population, 50-150g carbs derived from fruit, honey, lactose, or starches per day while on a high raw fat diet with 250g+ per day is the range where people will be healthiest. That would be 3 bananas, 2.5 cups cooked white rice, 1L orange juice, 180g honey, or 3L raw milk. Each of those things has 100-150g carbohydrates.
Can you eat more than 150g of carbs? Absolutely, and some people may experience that they feel better that way, but for many people, it will cause hyperactivity.
However, there are exceptions. Times I would recommend a zero carb raw carnivore diet (with inclusion of some fermented meat) would be when somebody has any of these conditions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nMC4NwXRUJgQrYjhVSZfpUhZAJ25bS8h0BNBYX4aEhQ/edit?tab=t.0
Which ones to eat
This is THE most important. More so than how much you eat or how you eat it.Your health will be completely different if youre eating pesticide ridden things dense with toxins compared to if youre eating high quality low pesticide foods with fewer toxins.
The fruits with often the most pesticides include (according to dirty dozen):
- Spinach
- Strawberries
- Kale, Collard, and Mustard Greens
- Grapes
- Peaches
- Cherries
- Pears
- Nectarines
- Apples
- Bell and Hot Peppers
- Blueberries
- Green Beans
And the ones with the fewest (clean fifteen) are:
- Honey
- Pineapple
- Sweet Corn
- Avocados
- Papaya
- Onions
- Sweet Peas (Frozen)
- Asparagus
- Cabbage
- Watermelon
- Mushrooms
- Mangoes
- Kiwis
- Bananas
- Carrots
- Cauliflower
However, I must insist you avoid ALL botanical vegetables, grains, legumes, mushrooms, etc.
The only exception is made for the very occasional potato. You will literally only detriment from consuming vegetables 99.99999999% of the time.Of the clean fifteen (and more), the best carbs in no particular order would be honey, dairy, pineapple, papaya, watermelon, and mangoes.
Despite the reputation in the community for pineapples and papaya having lots of oxalates and other toxins, they harbor very beneficial enzymes which will lead to them doing more good than bad.
How to eat them
Blood sugar spikes ARE inherently harmful to you. The goal is to minimize them as much as we can.What to do while eating them:
Ideally, you would consume carbohydrates when you are in direct full/half-body sunlight at at least a moderate to high uv, or as much as your body can handle and as much as you can tolerate. The sun exposure will lower your hba1c if done when eating the fruit. It's very important that you are in the sun as you consume the carbs, not right before or right after. Pro tip ideally make sure to get sun on your stomach as it will help blunt blood sugar spikes even more but not necessary. (PS: not important to do with carbs from dairy/formulas/milkshakes/recipes as the fat in the foods will significantly decrease the blood sugar spike from the carbs on its own.)Ways to eat them:
You can consume them either in formulas, milkshakes, recipes, mixes, or just straight while in the sun. The most important part is that you consume straight fruit with fat under the sun and that in formulas/milkshakes/recipes you never have a straight carb product. It must always be paired with an at least equal amount of raw fats.When to eat them:
Generally, the first thing you should consume after waking is fat and protein, but if you have low blood sugar, waking up with fruit, honey, or starches would be beneficial. Eating throughout the day is very damaging and not healthy, so something like eating two fat and protein meals per day with small (10-20 minute) period of snacking on things which have carbohydrates in the middle would be best.Conclusion: Some people should restrict carbohydrates if they have a certain condition, but the general rule is that inclusion of some carbohydrates will be much healthy. (However, a zero carb diet definitely has its upsides for aging better, but thats a topic for another time)
Hope this helps
Very helpful thank you
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@Swansven Ive also been doing research and I definitely believe ever more than when I made this thread that a raw lion diet does appear to have incredible benefits for longevity and for cancer treatment. The biggest argument stems from blood sugar spikes which in my opinion are inherently harmful as they are the biggest driver of glycation by a huge margin. I believe younger people below 30-40 can get away with eating carbohydrates especially if they do sports or live literally dead on the equator and will be much much healthier and more thriving than low carb but once you get older you cant get away so much with the glycation and I believe you should slowly transition to the final goalpost which is a raw meat, poultry, and fish diet which is our most natural diet as we do not consume eggs or dairy after tanner stage 1 in nature. Also, the issue with cortisol which people bring up is only a thing in the first few days to two weeks on the diet and then it goes away forever and can even be lower than before, and this has been studied causally. However, we will never know the truth without a 20M dollar funded double blind rct buzzword buzzword study and its genuinely a shame how shitty nutritional sciences are that we cant extrapolate anything for true health.
@TrenAndTartare W take bro
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@Swansven Ive also been doing research and I definitely believe ever more than when I made this thread that a raw lion diet does appear to have incredible benefits for longevity and for cancer treatment. The biggest argument stems from blood sugar spikes which in my opinion are inherently harmful as they are the biggest driver of glycation by a huge margin. I believe younger people below 30-40 can get away with eating carbohydrates especially if they do sports or live literally dead on the equator and will be much much healthier and more thriving than low carb but once you get older you cant get away so much with the glycation and I believe you should slowly transition to the final goalpost which is a raw meat, poultry, and fish diet which is our most natural diet as we do not consume eggs or dairy after tanner stage 1 in nature. Also, the issue with cortisol which people bring up is only a thing in the first few days to two weeks on the diet and then it goes away forever and can even be lower than before, and this has been studied causally. However, we will never know the truth without a 20M dollar funded double blind rct buzzword buzzword study and its genuinely a shame how shitty nutritional sciences are that we cant extrapolate anything for true health.
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@Swansven it's 10,000x more glycating but circulates at 1/30,000th so it doesnt end up doing actually anything
@TrenAndTartare if I'm not mistaken, it's 20 to 50 thousand times more reactive. And if the circulating mgo can double on zero carb, that would theoretically be more glycative damage than some blood sugar bumps from something like a starch. I'm not even going to touch on hormones on zero carb because I'm not really versed in it. Strictly touching on glycation, zero carb seems to not be the irrefutable best.
Enjoy the raw milk
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@TrenAndTartare if I'm not mistaken, it's 20 to 50 thousand times more reactive. And if the circulating mgo can double on zero carb, that would theoretically be more glycative damage than some blood sugar bumps from something like a starch. I'm not even going to touch on hormones on zero carb because I'm not really versed in it. Strictly touching on glycation, zero carb seems to not be the irrefutable best.
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@TrenAndTartare what reason do you have for advocating for carbs in your 20s-30s?
@Swansven up till age 40 is your physical prime and I believe your body is healthy enough to not be damaged by carbs while being able to benefit from them. Past age 40 your metabolic function declines significantly every year and you the benefits of carbs no longer outweighs the damage they do
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@TrenAndTartare if I'm not mistaken, it's 20 to 50 thousand times more reactive. And if the circulating mgo can double on zero carb, that would theoretically be more glycative damage than some blood sugar bumps from something like a starch. I'm not even going to touch on hormones on zero carb because I'm not really versed in it. Strictly touching on glycation, zero carb seems to not be the irrefutable best.
@Swansven In theory, if MGO production stayed elevated and the body's clearance capacity didn't adapt, then yes, it could remain elevated, but thats not realistic. Over time you adapt by increasing reliance on fat and ketones and changing metabolic flux.
This upregulates detoxification pathways (such as the glyoxalase system) which we're touching on now, and its an unwanted byproduct which the body needs to detoxify. And in the body, glycolysis is the primary driver of mgo to my understanding, so it would be very low in ketosis. Even if it is elevated in ketosis, new research is finding that the ketone body acetoacetate non-enzymatically binds with mgo, buffering it before it causes damage, thus neutralizing it. -
@Swansven it’s not speculation that the diet provides the least glycation, in fact the diet reverses it
@Elliott87 yes this is true a raw carnivore does stop and glycation and definitely reverses glycation but not to zero. Let's say you have a scale of glycation where the natural and healthy amount to gave by age 25 is 35x where x=glycation damage but you eat a shitty diet so youre at 80x by age 25 instead of 35x. It'll reverse it to 35x on raw carnivore but not to 34x, even though 34x would be younger metabolically. So it will 100% reverse your glycation related damage for everybody as we all have it but its not a fountain for eternal youth. It just gets you back to where you should be
